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radiator fan problems

Corrupt
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radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:26 pm

I have a 96 Ford Taurus with the 3.0L DOHC and am starting to notice that after sitting at a red light for a short time the engine will heat up a bit. So I started looking into why it was doing this. Come to find out my radiator fans are not coming on after temperature is high enough. If I turn on my A/C the fans will run then. I have changed out the coolant temp sensor. Don't know where else to look. Is there some kind of relay that I can look for on this vehicle?


taurus97
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by taurus97 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:25 pm

how many miles do you have on her?...did you replace just the sensor or also the thermostat?

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:38 pm

Just replaced the sensor. Wouldn't think the thermostat would keep the elctric fans from coming on?? She's around 144k miles

taurus97
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by taurus97 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:05 pm

144K....very nice indeed! have you done much to the car...to get to that miliege?...I have 115,00....and knock on wood....the engine is still like new.

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:07 pm

I purchased the car used and it probably had about 115k on it. The only thing I had to have done was the alternator. Kind of a pain in the butt to do on these cars cause it's on the bottom and has to come out in the front passenger side wheel well. Did it myself though.

Did some more research on the fan problem, and it seems as if it might have a bad fan relay which is built into the CCRM (constant control relay module). Wouldn't ya know it, the CCRM is a dealer only item and runs about $190. Have jumped the pins on the CCRM harness and the fan does work.

Does anybody know how to tell if the PCM is calling for the fan relay to close so the fan comes on? Is there other wires in the CCRM harness where I can check for voltage to see if the relay is getting the voltage it needs to close?

RStabb
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by RStabb » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:37 pm

Sounds like the dreaded brown coolant recall. Look it up here.

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:59 pm

Why not post up a link. In my opinion if you can take the time to post up an idea, you can at least explain yourself a little more as to why you believe it sounds like this. Thanks for the idea, and I looked at a post about this "brown coolant recall" and have yet to find anything that pertains to the radiator fans not running, but they do run when the A/C is on.

On a side note, I live in Florida, so it doesn't freeze enough around here, and I'm not losing coolant from the reservoir.

RStabb
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by RStabb » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:33 pm

Corrupt wrote:Why not post up a link. In my opinion if you can take the time to post up an idea, you can at least explain yourself a little more as to why you believe it sounds like this. Thanks for the idea, and I looked at a post about this "brown coolant recall" and have yet to find anything that pertains to the radiator fans not running, but they do run when the A/C is on.

On a side note, I live in Florida, so it doesn't freeze enough around here, and I'm not losing coolant from the reservoir.

http://www.fordtaurus.net/forums/viewto ... 33&t=12649

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:15 pm

Thanks for the link. I can understand what you are saying about the water pump and all, but; I replaced the water pump in her just this past summer. I don't believe the water has sat still too long and turned to "acid", because just before winter started around here i drained her and refreshed her with antifreeze and water. My heat is working just fine also. Wouldn't this mean I have good circulation? At least thru my heater core anyways. Also, when I pulled my coolant temp sensor, I did not drain the reservoir just so I could get some kinda water flow out the sensor port. And I could definitely tell it was anti-freeze and water mixed. No brown water.

RStabb
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by RStabb » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:41 pm

OK, the next step is to check for codes in the PCM. Do a KOEO and KOER self test.

If you get a pass, try disconnecting or jumping the CTS pins and see if the fan runs.

If the fans don't run, you need a fan controller.

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:59 am

Checked for codes and only thing that comes up on any of the codes is P0401 (EGR insufficient flow) But I have an idea of what that is. Quick question on that, could that cause the engine to run lean?

Not sure what you mean by jumping the CTS? pins. I disconnected the CCRM and jumped the pins in that and the fans do come on. So I know the fans are good. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

RStabb
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by RStabb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:54 am

Corrupt wrote:Checked for codes and only thing that comes up on any of the codes is P0401 (EGR insufficient flow) But I have an idea of what that is. Quick question on that, could that cause the engine to run lean?

Not sure what you mean by jumping the CTS? pins. I disconnected the CCRM and jumped the pins in that and the fans do come on. So I know the fans are good. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
The P0401 code is a bad DPFE sensor and will not cause your overheat problem.

With the engine running,disconnect the coolant temp sensor(CTS) connector and jump across the two connector pins.
The fans should come on. We will go from there.

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:38 pm

Fans did come on with CTS wires jumped, pulled the jumper out of pins fans still stayed on. They only went off when I plugged the pins back onto the CTS. This is a new CTS.

RStabb
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by RStabb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:58 pm

Corrupt wrote:Fans did come on with CTS wires jumped, pulled the jumper out of pins fans still stayed on. They only went off when I plugged the pins back onto the CTS. This is a new CTS.

Well then Corrupt, everything is working as it should.
May be a guage problem. :?

Corrupt
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by Corrupt » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:18 pm

Could I have gotten a new bad sensor? I guess the one way to check the sensor would be to pull it, and check continuity in cold and water that around 230*F ehh?

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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by RStabb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:35 pm

Corrupt wrote:Could I have gotten a new bad sensor? I guess the one way to check the sensor would be to pull it, and check continuity in cold and water that around 230*F ehh?

You could monitor the signal voltage with a good digilal volt meter.
VREF is 5 volts.
As the engine temp goes up the signal voltage goes down . A cold engine may read 3 volts and a hot engine may read .5 volts.
I'm not sure of the reading when the PCM turns on the fans but .5 volts is an overheat signal voltage.

windswept4
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by windswept4 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:31 am

I have the exact same fan issue, Corrupt. I have no low or high speed radiator fan when the coolant is overheating. On my taurus (94) the fan does come on, but only when I disconnect the harness to the coolant temperature sensor (CTS)...or when I turn on the A/C switch...I am told that when disconnecting the CTS with the result that the fan begins to operate is proof that the fan and the CCRM are in good operating order. Whether the CCRM is in good operating order, i'm still trying to figure out. Here is a link to an excellent wiring diagram that provides a lot of detail:
http://www.justanswer.com/ford/2i4ra-fo ... ey-on.html

windswept4
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by windswept4 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:38 am

Testing the CTS (coolant temperature sensor) is easy (make sure you have identified the 2 wire sensor and NOT the single wire coolant temperature sensor) . Remove the CTS ...connect each terminal to an ohmmeter with alligator clips and for a moment lower the sensor portion into a pan of really hot water (just under boiling temp) (i did this on the stove eye in the kitchen). Within a second or two the resistance of the CTS will drop from around 30,000 ohms at room temp to near 0 ohms as the temperature rises to the boiling point. Within 5 seconds of dipping the sensor into the pan of hot water the resistance of a good sensor will drop from 30,000 ohms to near 0 ohms.

windswept4
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by windswept4 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:44 am

Please keep this discussion going, as my search to get the cooling fan to activate when the coolant temp overheats seems to be leading me to the CCRM or the PCM and i'm not sure, based on the discussion thus far, how to pinpoint whether the failure is in the CCRM or in the PCM or in the wires connecting the two. Any help in this regard is appreciated.

windswept4
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Re: radiator fan problems

Post by windswept4 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:55 am

The temporary "get around" to the overheating problem until this fan problem of mine is fixed is this: When stuck in traffic and helplessly watching the temp indicator slowly rise to the "blow a hose" point I manually activate the A/C...the result is the cooling fan automatically will come on...and then I can relax while watching the temp of the engine coolant decline. No need to actually cool the interior...(if it's winter for example)...just turn the heat level of the A/c to warm or hot...the radiator fan should still be on as long as the A/C switch is activated.

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