If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordTaurus.net!

Performance, gas mileage, etc

Discuss anything related to the engine, electronics, transmission, etc.
Post Reply
rjs239
Regular Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:26 pm
Location: Alton, IL

Performance, gas mileage, etc

Post by rjs239 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:34 pm

Has anybody seen any reviews yet for the 500?

I know production is supposed to start on 7/12 (from reading our earlier posts), but has Ford released anything about gas mileage (or MSRP for the different models yet)?

Thanks!!
Rick


User avatar
Webmaster
Site Administrator
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 pm
Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew
Contact:

Post by Webmaster » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:50 am

I haven't seen any reviews. They should be coming within the next month or so. I haven't heard about the mileage yet either. That usually doesn't come until very close to the date that the vehicle hits the showroom floor.

tecman
Regular Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:23 pm

Post by tecman » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:43 pm

When would the earliest that this car could be purchased?
Could it be bought in july?

User avatar
Webmaster
Site Administrator
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 pm
Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew
Contact:

Post by Webmaster » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:50 pm

I posted mileage estimates (MPG) in the Specifications section.

tecman
Regular Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:23 pm

Post by tecman » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:30 pm

is the L60D 6 speed?
I thought the AWD was only mated with the cvt
now it seems you can't get a fwd with the 6 speed

User avatar
Webmaster
Site Administrator
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 pm
Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew
Contact:

Post by Webmaster » Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:00 pm

Yup, it's the Aisin AW six-speed automatic. Well I got the info direct from Ford media, so it must be correct 8)
tecman wrote:is the L60D 6 speed?
I thought the AWD was only mated with the cvt
now it seems you can't get a fwd with the 6 speed

BillRoper
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:58 am

Post by BillRoper » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:00 pm

I'm a little surprised that the posted MPG numbers suggest that the mileage is better with the 6-speed transmission than with the CVT. I thought that improved mileage was part of the reason for the CVT.

Do I misunderstand?

User avatar
Webmaster
Site Administrator
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 pm
Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew
Contact:

Post by Webmaster » Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:17 pm

Hmmm... I was under that impression too. Check out this quote from a Ford press release. Looks like you only get fuel savings over a traditional 4 speed automatic transmission, and not necessarily a 6 speed one.
The obvious benefit is smoothness because there's no shifting. But CVTs are more efficient, too, and thus save about 4 percent to 8 percent in fuel versus the traditional four-speed automatic.
BillRoper wrote:I'm a little surprised that the posted MPG numbers suggest that the mileage is better with the 6-speed transmission than with the CVT. I thought that improved mileage was part of the reason for the CVT.

Do I misunderstand?

tecman
Regular Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:23 pm

Post by tecman » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:39 pm

Those MPG might be wrong,
I will wait to see what the EPA numbers are.
Even if they are correct the CVT might get better numbers in"real" driving vs the 6 speed

RoBi
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:16 pm

Mileage

Post by RoBi » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:35 pm

I wonder if Ford has designed this platform with any possible future intentions to offer a hybrid powertrain. Now that they have it developed for the Escape, I would think they might be at least consideringv this. I hope so since I would like to see Ford be the first to offer a large sedan like this with 30+ mpg. I believe Honda will have a "mild hybrid" Accord out soon and I'm sure Toyota must be considering a Camry hybrid. As is, the 500 it still is pretty respectable in terms of mpg and hopefully with the CVT the final EPA numbers will push the highway mpg to 30mpg.
RoBi

User avatar
Webmaster
Site Administrator
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 pm
Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew
Contact:

Post by Webmaster » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:59 pm

RoBi, welcome.

That's possible, but I have a feeling Ford is going to stick to smaller cars as potential Hybrids, such as the Focus. It seems that the "foreign" auto manufacturers are putting in far more effort into hybrid / new technologies than "domestic" manufacturers. Ford, GM, etc., all seem to be following, rather than leading.

Ned_C2
Regular Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: Dearborn, MI

Post by Ned_C2 » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:28 pm

Webmaster wrote:RoBi, welcome.

That's possible, but I have a feeling Ford is going to stick to smaller cars as potential Hybrids, such as the Focus. It seems that the "foreign" auto manufacturers are putting in far more effort into hybrid / new technologies than "domestic" manufacturers. Ford, GM, etc., all seem to be following, rather than leading.
Ford are planning a hybrid version of the Fusion, formerly known as the Futura, and the second and smaller of the two cars which are replacing the Taurus. which will debut next year. When the hybrid version will come out I don't know, probably not at the same time as the initial launch though. Most all of Ford's hybrid design is done in-house, and is original even though it is similar to the Toyota system and Ford did cros license a number of patents. Ford are doing a great deal of develpment on new technologies, as are GM. Getting product o market is another matter. Diesels are a no go in North America until cleaner fuels become widely availabe and some states change certain standards, the Hydrogen Economy is years off, and is unlikely ever to come at a national or continental level. One problem that all manufacturers are having with bringing hybrids to market is a shotage of battery units.

RoBi
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:16 pm

Post by RoBi » Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:17 am

Thanks for the welcome and interesting comments on Ford's future with hybrids. Although I do believe hybrids are part of the future, I also think they are somewhat complex and having a single powerplant appraching 30 mpg in a large modern V6 family sedan is pretty appealing.
RoBi

sstinman
Regular Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:25 pm
Location: Detroit

Post by sstinman » Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:47 pm

I'm not convinced about Hybrid powertrains. Lets say a hybrid can make a 20% improvement in fuel economy (30 to 36 MPG). Lets say you spend $1000 in fuel per year. So a 20% improvement would mean you could save $200 per year in fuel.

Now most hydrid cost well over $2000, so that would mean you would have to drive the car for 10 years to breakeven (not including the time value of money). With time value the breakeven point moves out to almost 12 years.

Not to mention all the extra components will be less reliable than the base vehicle. As you can read I'm not in favor of hybrid powertrains. Its a nice idea but not a praticle one. By the way $1000 of fuel x 30 MPG = 30,000 miles per year.

To make Hybrids a good choice the fuel economy needs to increase by 80-100%. So 30 MPG to 300 MPG and $1000 per year fuel bill would become $100, with a savings of $900 per year and roughly a 30 month breakeven point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Next thing the CVT has a final drive ratio is 5.19:1 while the 6-six has a 3.49:1

Meaning the CVT should have better acceleration while the six-speed should have a higher top end and better fuel economy .
Spin all 4

User avatar
Webmaster
Site Administrator
Posts: 2079
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 pm
Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 XLT SuperCrew
Contact:

Post by Webmaster » Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:12 pm

IMHO, you don't buy hybrids solely for the MPG improvement. You also buy them to show support for "alternative" vehicles, decreased emmissions, and/or for a more environmentally vehicle.

If you look at the Prius, it gets 71 MPG city (67 highway), and the next best Toyota (Echo) car gets 42 city (54 highway). So in this case, the MPG improvement is 69% city and 24% highway. 90% of my driving is city driving, so I stand to save a lot of money in gas.

So it really depends on each situation whether it's worth it to buy a Hybrid. The Prius is a car my wife and I seriously considered last year when we were car shopping. In the end it didn't meet all of our criteria.

But that just one case. I see your point. The GM hybrid pickup truck get a modest 10% increase in mileage. And the Escape, I'm not sure what the increase is. I'm supportive of hybrid technologies, but they're not ready for the masses. 8)

Source: http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/vehicles/home.cfm

johnclineii
Regular Member
Posts: 8378
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:25 am
Location: West Virginia

Post by johnclineii » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:01 pm

First, from 30 MPG to 300 MPG is not only impossible in the near future, it would make the fuel economy 10 times what it is now, or 1000%. And I can darn near guarantee it wouldn't come at such a low cost as was projected here....if at all.

Jamers
Regular Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Land O Lakes, FL

Post by Jamers » Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:17 pm

Hybrids don't seem to provide a significant MPG savings unless it's in a much lighter weight vehicle. And I don't know about you but I'm not putting my kids in a plastic coffin on wheels. Our highways kill more people every year in this country only second to heart disease. Unless they start building these cars out of light weight high strength titanium, you won't find me in one. I know low emissions is nice but so is living. This technology would have to come a long way before it would ever be practical for the masses. I mean could you see an Expedition hybrid? Especially one that could tow a boat? Not anytime soon. But given the 500's weight/size and relatively good acceleration, I'd say 21/29 is pretty good.

User avatar
concreteguy
Regular Member
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:34 pm
Location: NS. Canada

Post by concreteguy » Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:54 am

I have to agree with you there...The window sticker on my 500 car has highway driving at 38 mpg and it has the 3.46 axel...I see lots of Echo type cars that are jamed with people and if you hit one with my Lariat truck no one would come out alive...Saving gas ?? if you don't like a small car you will not want to drive it much and yes you will then save gas...

If I drive somewhere I like to feel safe and with room to move in the rig as well as room for all the stuff we like to have with us...like our dog Spirit...well my opinion anyway...
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "...Boy.....what a ride !"

Now have a 2006 Ford Freestyle Limited AWD

Post Reply